Testimony versus Conversion

This is a talk by Daniel Quillen of our Jinan Twig in the CCID Branch given in Sacrament meeting September 16.

Converted Unto the Lord

Sacrament Meeting Talk

Central China International Branch

September 16, 2018

One of my favorite passages of scripture is found in Matthew 16:15-17.  The setting was Caesarea Phillipi. Nearly twenty years ago, Bonita and I were fortunate enough to be able to go to Caesarea Phillipi.  The day we were there was hot, dry and dusty, much as it probably was when our Savior stopped there to speak with His disciples 2,000 years before.

In my mind’s eye, I can see him, resting in the shade of one of the many fig trees in the area, its broad leaves providing him and his disciples a bit of a break from the hot sun.

Here it was that he asked his disciples who the crowds thought he was. They responded that some thought he was John the Baptist, others Elias, or Jeremias or one of the other prophets.

But then the Savior got right to the point of the matter when he asked, “But whom say ye that I am?”

Peter did not hesitate, and boldly answered, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

The Savior complimented Simon Peter on the revelation he had received from the Father and he acknowledged his testimony.

In October conference 2012, Elder David A. Bednar began his address with the passage we have just been discussing, and then shared his thoughts about testimonies and their relationship to conversion.

After sharing the Savior’s exchange with Peter, Elder Bednar said:

…a testimony is a personal knowledge of a spiritual truth by revelation.  A testimony is available to all of His children.  Any honest seeker of truth can obtain a testimony…

He continued by saying:

Seeking for and obtaining a testimony of spiritual truth requires asking, seeking, and knocking with a sincere heart, real intent, and faith in the Savior. 

Later in his talk, Elder Bednar moved from the topic of testimony to the topic of conversion.  He compared and contrasted them.  He said:

The essence of the gospel of Jesus Christ entails a fundamental and permanent change in our very nature made possible through the Savior’s Atonement. True conversion brings a change in one’s beliefs, heart, and life to accept and conform to the will of God and includes a conscious commitment to become a disciple of Christ.

Conversion is an enlarging, a deepening, and a broadening of the undergirding base of testimony. It is the result of revelation from God, accompanied by individual repentance, obedience, and diligence. Any honest seeker of truth can become converted by experiencing the mighty change of heart and being spiritually born of God.

Let me share a portion of his definition of conversion again:

Conversion is an enlarging, a deepening, and a broadening of the undergirding base of testimony.

To gain a testimony, we must ask, seek, and knock with a sincere heart, real intent, and faith in the Savior, and then we will receive a testimony.

And Elder Bednar added:

Conversion is an offering of self, of love, and of loyalty we give to God in gratitude for the gift of testimony.

Elder Bednar sums up the differences between testimony and conversion by saying:

Knowing by the power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ is important and necessary. But earnestly coming unto Him and giving our whole souls as an offering requires much more than merely knowing. Conversion requires all of our heart, all of our might, and all of our mind and strength.

If you are like me, conversion to the Lord and His work wasn’t a one-time, earth-shaking event, such as what happened to Alma and the sons of Mosiah. But rather it has been a process of line upon line, precept upon precept.  Elder Bednar says our progress toward conversion will be gradual and “…almost imperceptibly, our motives, our thoughts, our words, and our deeds become aligned with the will of God. Conversion unto the Lord requires both persistence and patience.”

Again, comparing and contrasting testimony and conversion, Elder Bednar said a few things that at least on their surface may seem rather startling:

Testimony is the beginning of and a prerequisite to continuing conversion. Testimony is a point of departure; it is not an ultimate destination. Strong testimony is the foundation upon which conversion is established.

Now listen to this:

Testimony alone is not and will not be enough to protect us in the latter-day storm of darkness and evil in which we are living. Testimony is important and necessary but not sufficient to provide the spiritual strength and protection we need.

At this point, I’d like to share a personal and rather painful example of the need for conversion and not just the need for a testimony.

Our son Andrew was an obedient child.  In fact, along with an older sister who he was very much like, he was the most obedient of all our children.  We never had to worry that Andrew would do the right thing in any situation in which he found himself.

He attended early-morning seminary, never complained about going to Church, loved the Lord and served a mission.

Andrew had a testimony.  But because of his obedience and his testimony, it never occurred to us that he wasn’t converted.

But after his mission, he married a lovely, God-fearing young woman who is not of our faith.  They attend and are active in her Church.  They have a wonderful, Christ-centered home and they love and serve the Lord.  However, they do not have the blessings of the restored gospel in their home.  They are not sealed together as a family for eternity.  And unless their hearts change, their wonderful children will never know the joys of serving a mission or being married in the temple for time and all eternity.

It is enough to make a father and grandfather very sad.

And how our Father in Heaven must be saddened when he sees so many children of his kingdom walking a precarious path, armed only with a testimony, but lacking the stronger and necessary protection that conversion brings!

Elder Bednar concluded his talk with an interpretation of the parable of the Ten Virgins.  You all know the parable – there were ten virgins, five of which were wise and five of which were unwise.  Together they learned of the coming of the bridegroom.  Elder Bednar then says:

Please think of the lamps used by the virgins as the lamps of testimony. The foolish virgins took their lamps of testimony but took no oil with them. Consider the oil to be the oil of conversion.

And then Elder Bednar slightly modified the parable to make his point:

“But the wise took oil [of conversion] in their vessels with their lamps [of testimony].

“While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

“And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

“Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps [of testimony].

“And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil [even the oil of conversion]; for our lamps [of testimony are weak and] are gone out.

“But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves” (Matthew 25:4–9).

Were the five wise virgins selfish and unwilling to share, or were they indicating correctly that the oil of conversion cannot be borrowed? Can the spiritual strength that results from consistent obedience to the commandments be given to another person? Can the knowledge obtained through diligent study and pondering of the scriptures be conveyed to one who is in need? The clear answer to each of these questions is no.

As the wise virgins emphasized properly, each of us must “buy for ourselves.” These inspired women were not describing a business transaction; rather, they were emphasizing our individual responsibility to keep our lamp of testimony burning and to obtain an ample supply of the oil of conversion. This precious oil is acquired one drop at a time—“line upon line [and] precept upon precept,” patiently and persistently. No shortcut is available; no last-minute flurry of preparation is possible.

Let me shift gears a bit now.

What were you doing at 5:58pm Christmas Day, 2004?

         -- Eating?

         -- spending time with family?

         -- enjoying some new doodad or other

         -- Perhaps you were having a family home evening

At 5:58:53pm, Mountain Daylight time, December 25, 2004, (which would have been 7:58:53am on December 26 in this part of the world) --  a massive earthquake, measuring 9.1 on the Richter scale – second highest ever recorded -- struck in the ocean 100 miles off the west coast of Sumatra, Indonesia.  The earthquake lasted almost 10 minutes.  Its effects were felt around the world – it is said that it caused the entire planet to vibrate at least one half inch.

It spawned numerous tsunamis – killing over one quarter of a million people.  Waves over 100 feet tall (about ten stories) hit seaside villages, destroying them and killing virtually everything in their path.

How is it, then, that an entire village near the epicenter of the earthquake, lost not one single soul – even though their village was completely destroyed?

Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles shared the following information during a talk in general conference ten months after the tsunami hit this part of the world:

The Moken people live in villages on islands off the coast of Thailand and Burma (Myanmar). A society of fishermen, their lives depend on the sea. For hundreds and perhaps thousands of years, their ancestors have studied the ocean, and they have passed their knowledge down from father to son.

One thing in particular they were careful to teach was what to do when the ocean receded. According to their traditions, when that happened, the "Laboon"—a wave that eats people—would arrive soon after.

When the elders of the village saw the dreaded signs, they shouted to everyone to run to high ground.

Not everyone listened.

One elderly fisherman said, "None of the kids believed me." In fact, his own daughter called him a liar. But the old fisherman would not relent until all had left the village and climbed to higher ground.¹

The Moken people were fortunate in that they had someone with conviction who warned them of what would follow. The villagers were fortunate because they listened. Had they not, they may have perished.

Like the Moken people who were wise enough to listen to those who were warning them of difficult times to come, we, too, have someone with conviction who warns us of impending danger, who is counseling us to be prepared.

We have heard from Elder Bednar that:

Testimony alone is not and will not be enough to protect us in the latter-day storm of darkness and evil in which we are living. Testimony is important and necessary but not sufficient to provide the spiritual strength and protection we need.

I want to share another warning voice I hope we all heard just five months’ ago.  Earlier during this meeting, you heard my wife Bonita share important counsel from our Prophet, Russell M. Nelson, as he taught members of the Church how to receive personal revelation.

I will pick up just a paragraph or two after the information she shared from President Nelson:

One of the things the Spirit has repeatedly impressed upon my mind…

 (Time to sit up and take notice when the Prophet says something like that!)

…since my new calling as President of the Church is how willing the Lord is to reveal His mind and will. The privilege of receiving revelation is one of the greatest gifts of God to His children….

I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation,…”

To be sure, there may be times when you feel as though the heavens are closed. But I promise that as you continue to be obedient, expressing gratitude for every blessing the Lord gives you, and as you patiently honor the Lord’s timetable, you will be given the knowledge and understanding you seek. Every blessing the Lord has for you—even miracles—will follow. That is what personal revelation will do for you.

Our Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ, will perform some of His mightiest works between now and when He comes again. We will see miraculous indications that God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, preside over this Church in majesty and glory. But in coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting, and constant influence of the Holy Ghost.

My beloved brothers and sisters, I plead with you to increase your spiritual capacity to receive revelation. 

The Moken people heard wise and life-saving counsel from the Elders of their village.  And we, too, have heard wise and life-saving Counsel from the Elders of our Church.

Elder Bednar warned us that:

Testimony alone is not and will not be enough to protect us in the latter-day storm of darkness and evil in which we are living. Testimony is important and necessary but not sufficient to provide the spiritual strength and protection we need.

And did you hear the strength of the words President Nelson used in his closing paragraphs of his talk?

It was impressed upon his mind that the Lord was willing to reveal his mind and will to us

He urged us…( I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation,…”)

He pleaded with us… I plead with you to increase your spiritual capacity to receive revelation. 

He promised us…( I promise that as you continue to be obedient, expressing gratitude for every blessing the Lord gives you, and as you patiently honor the Lord’s timetable, you will be given the knowledge and understanding you seek.)

And he told us straight out that without the guidance, direction, comforting and constant influence of the Holy Ghost, we will not survive spiritually!

It feels like if the Savior was here, he would say, “Those who have ears to hear, let him hear!”

Brothers and Sisters, we sustain these men as prophets, seers and revelators.  Following their counsel immediately may be as important to us as boarding the ark was in Noah’s day.

Testimony

Ø  Importance of conversion

Ø  Importance of revelation

Ø  Heeding the words of those whom we sustain as Prophets, Seers and revelators

The Gift of the Holy Ghost

Yesterday at my grandson Nathan’s baptism and confirmation a young Aaronic priesthood holder gave a talk.  He seemed older than a deacon, but definitely younger than a priest, so I think he was a teacher.  He asked if we could have anything in this world what would be the most valuable gift.  He said it was the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

The prophet Joseph Smith, when asked what the biggest difference was between this church and the other Christian churches, we said it was that we had the Gift of the Holy Ghost.  This Aaronic Priesthood boy’s words prompted me to think about what a treasure this gift is.  As mentioned in the vision of the Tree of Life, we know that in this life mists of darkness surround us.  I thought about a pilot flying through a dense fog or even a storm.  What would be the most valuable instrument he could have?  It would be his radar or radio that could give him the information he needed to get through the storm safely.  This is like the Gift of the Holy Ghost.

Considering what this life is all about – a testing and learning experience, which will determine options in the next life – more than all the gold or things we could have in this life, the Gift of the Holy Ghost, the communicator and source of great strength, would be the most valuable.  The Holy Ghost can help us avoid trouble and mistakes.  It can guide us in our communications with others.  It can strengthen us in difficult times.  It can lead us back home to be with our Heavenly Parents.

It is not something that is just on or off.  How much worth it is depends upon our worthiness and how well we have learned to use it.  Lehi and his family had a physical manifestation of this gift in the Liahona.  It guided them in the wilderness and on the ocean.  It worked according to their faithfulness and their obedience to it.  They were not perfect in using it, as we are not, but by returning to it time and time again, repenting of their pride, etc., it guided them true to their destination.

How much do we value this priceless gift?  Do we value it enough to obey the commandments for it?  Do we value it enough to humbly repent when we need to, making us worthy to use this gift?  Do we value it enough to learn how to use it effectively?  It is much more valuable than the most powerful cell phone!  It is more energizing than the strongest battery!  It can help us see more clearly than the best optical devises!  With it we can more accurately see ourselves, our weaknesses and strengths.  It can guide us when we cannot see ahead at all.  It will bring us home!

Charles Barnes - Cooper, and Patience

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While reading in a book Grandma gave me called OAK The Frame of Civilization by William Bryant Logan, I came upon a section called “Mister Cooper.”  “Mister,” a form of the word master, was a term that was applied, like Dr., Rev., Lord, etc., to those who had acquired the skill and title of what we would call a master craftsman.  It is now applied to men in general, but was once an honored, middle class title.  The author stated that Thomas Jefferson felt that government would be best trusted in the hands of these people, who had become highly and responsibly skilled, many of whom had to also become skilled in other trades such as farming to supplement their income.  In learning their trade, along with their experiences, they could be better trusted to be responsible than those of the elite or of the lower classes of people.

One of your ancestors, Charles Barnes, was one of these master coopers.  The ten pages that described in detail what went into an apprentice’s training to become a cooper and the exactness with which their goods were produced was amazing to read!  I cannot share all of that, but the final three paragraphs were gems I wanted to share.

The great thing about coopering and other crafts was that they occupied the brain, the hand, and the emotions, all at the same time.  There was a resistance to the completion of the task, and this had to be overcome by the craftsman’s know-how, a composite of his knowing, remembering, and action.  Memory, reason, and skill are God’s three gifts to human beings, and the simultaneous activity of the three might just be a requirement to become and remain a human being.

Craft is a school of patience.  Patience is what you acquire by working again and again on resistant materials.  There is never a right or wrong, only a closer and closer approach to wholly useful.

Patience is the mother of joy.  It is through patience that we can endure each other’s company long enough to love, through patience that we can cooperate in a task, through patience that we can go from abysmally bad to almost all right, through patience that we can restrain ourselves from wasting our lives in anger and disappointment.  The patient person waits, listens, expects, hopes, nurtures, cares, remembers, speaks, trusts, and is courteous.  The impatient person demands, gets angry, hurries, presumes, is careless, despairs, forgets, complains, distrusts, disrupts. (p. 181)

Some of my thoughts on this topic of patience is that it is probable that it cannot be acquired without the pain and “resistance” endemic to mortal life, which is why this is the time to prepare, for when the night comes (death), it is everlastingly too late to acquire this virtue so critical to being able to live with and like God.  (Thank goodness He has patience, or we would ALL be toast!)  When we have passed out of this life, pain and resistance are gone.  If we have acquired this virtue “…it will be well with us.”  If we have not, we will not be fit to live with those who have.

Oh, that we might spend our days seeking to learn about and acquire this virtue!  So “that we can endure each other’s company long enough to love,” cooperate in a task, change “from abysmally bad to almost all right,” (repent) and “restrain ourselves from wasting our lives in anger and disappointment.”  I’m convinced that our Heavenly Father crafts the experiences of our lives in such a way that, if we will trust in Him and keep on trying, He will build this and other vital virtues in us, and in this way bring us home to Him.

Following the Lead of the Church

I was reading in Alma 45: 23-24 last night.

23 And now it came to pass that after Helaman and his brethren had appointed priests and teachers over the churches that there arose a dissension among them, and they would not give heed to the words of Helaman and his brethren (underlining added);

24 But they grew proud, being lifted up in their hearts, because of their exceedingly great riches; therefore they grew rich in their own eyes, and would not give heed to their words, to walk uprightly before God.

Then I read in the news media as well as on Facebook about the Church's warning about the Medical Marijuana Initiative, urging people against it.  This was their second warning, and it was a legal description of the problems with the initiative.  What surprised me was the people who were trying to find fault with the warning as being "shallow," "poor reasoning," and on and on.  Most of these were politically active, so-called conservatives, some of whom were even calling upon their conservative philosophy to justify their opposition to the Church's warning, and saying that it was "causing" them to support the initiative!

Boy, if the Church thinks it is so important that they issue the warning twice, I'm all for listening!  I couldn't understand why those who claim to be on "the Right" politically, in Utah, would really bad-mouth the Church's warning voice!  But then I remembered that in this day "...that man of sin (will) be revealed...." (2 Thessalonians 2:3).  The scripture is referring to Satan being revealed in the last days, but I think there may be more to this, namely that those who claim to be saints, for the gain it gets them politically, financially, or in social standing, will be shown to be what they are in this time of trial and temptation.

I can tell you, my family, that if we do not continually nourish our testimonies by reading the scriptures and prophets, keeping the commandments, repenting regularly, and giving real service, we will be vulnerable to being led about by that man of sin until we cut ourselves off from the Lord.  We do not have to be perfect to be saved from this calamity, but we DO have to be repenting and striving to become perfect - continually washing our garments in the blood of the Lamb, as the scriptures put it, to take away the stains of the world from our hearts.

Please be humble (teachable), avoiding contentions, working to wash our souls, that the blood the Lamb of God shed might purify us eventually, allowing us to come back to the Father of us all, whom we so loved while in His presence, and with whom we would be eternally pained to be shut out from.

April Conference 2018

I was asked yesterday what callings I have had that no longer exist.  I was called as a statistical clerk as a freshman at BYU.  This should have only been given to an elder, which they thought I was, until I asked to be ordained an elder!.  I fulfilled that calling for two semesters before my mission.  Got all my reports in on time.  That calling disappeared when computers began to be used.  I have been a High Priest Group Leader twice and an assistant twice.  I have been a home teacher.  This weekend has made all of these callings obsolete.

I was ordained a High Priest when I was called as the Stake Clerk.  Now that calling will not even be part of the High Priest quorum, nor will ward clerks or executive secretaries, both of which I have been.  The only calling I've had that would be in that quorum now, was the three years I served in a student ward bishopric (well, I was a high councilor for two weeks before that calling came).

Another subject, I used to think repentance was for when you did something very serious.  I have now come to see that the atonement, including repentance, should be used constantly.  We should be repenting often - of things we say and realize we shouldn't have said them.  Thoughtless acts, selfish acts, and even thoughts that we know Father in Heaven would not want us to think about.  And things we should do and haven't done.

We should keep on repenting, even when falling back at times, until we finally conquer them.  If we keep up on our prayers, scripture reading - including conference talks, and trying to stay close to God, He will bring us there, even if we have to suffer some things to get there - which by the way is all worth it.  If we hang with Him, even when we start to sink in the waves, He WILL pull us through.  He will not give up on us, even when we would give up on ourselves.

Please keep trying in the battlefield of life.  I want you there in the next life.  Sometimes the only reason I have kept on in my own trials is because of you.  I want each of you.  I want us to be together as families.  The saints are the sinners that keep on trying!

What a marvelous and exciting time we live in!  How blessed we are to see it and be in the thick of it!  Write it down.  Write down your thoughts of this weekend.  I just finished.  I want my descendants to be able to see it through my eyes, and know me connected with the events of the day.

The Light of the World, Jesus Christ, is the only Savior there is.

The light of the Savior, Jesus Christ, comes with all people when they are born into this world.  It gently beckons to more light and truth.  As you act in accordance with this light and truth, it will guide you into more light.  Through the atonement of Jesus Christ, and by following His words as revealed through His prophets and apostles, the Lord can cleanse and purify us and lead us to all truth.

Sometimes we lack the faith to help this along, by working only toward what we think we need or want and not trusting that He will stay with us, heal us when hurt, and cleanse us from our sins.  Like a little child, who is afraid of the pain required to pull out a sliver, we too resist having sins and impurities pulled from our souls, because there is a certain amount of discomfort and even pain required.  If we trust Him, however, the pain will go away, and we will be left happier.  He understands the hurt and is patient with us.  As long as we continue to strive to improve, talking with Heavenly Father in prayer, feasting on His words in the scriptures and General Conference, He will gradually change and purify our hearts, that we no longer desire evil and gain control over both our spirits and bodies.

I bear testimony that He is really there.  He did overcome all.  He loves us, knows us individually, and works to bring us back, if we will have the faith, or even the desire to have faith in Him.  He is more powerful than all the evil in the world.  He knows and provides the way.  Usually the only way to fully come to appreciate this is through experiencing difficult times and pain, physical or spiritual.  Don't let that cause you to let go of Him.  He knows what you specifically need and will provide only what you are capable of experiencing.  He, like His and our Father in Heaven, is the kind of person I want to be with and become like.  His only desire, which is the will of the Father, is to bring us back to our Father in Heaven.  I want to be cleansed by Him and purified by Him, so that I finally want only what is good and right, and I have gained the strength to always act accordingly.  This is my testimony of Him, that I share in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.